with regards to what i am to write i am not quoting any one in particular but i am rather giving my feeling on the matter posted by kaur-1. Some people build temples in the physical world and believe worshipping there finds them god whilst the the temple within them is forgotten and crumbles away. Who is wrong or right i do not know. I do not disagree with going to the gurudwara or any other place of worship. But what i do want to ask you is why do you feel it is so important to suggest that in order to prove love and its legitamacy someone should take their partner to the gurudwara and recite bani. Firstly can i correct you if i may in that Gurbain is not found in ones "lap" and also ask you what good is false recitation. We do not become neccesarily "right" in the eyes of "God" by reciting gurbani alone we also have to live accordingly and act accordingly. And if this individual feels that sikhi is not the path for them why are you giving them such a lot of grief over it and dictating what they should and should not do.
Islam Sikh-Muslim Marriages
- Thread starter rav0615
- Start date
- Replies 213
- Reads 79K
-
- Tags
- marriages sikhmuslim
with due respect what my question has to do with your marriage.my point is don't put islam in the bracket of other religions.it is islam that is responsible for fanatic behaviour of other religion.if muslim s and muslim countries will become tolerant then fanatic behaviour of other religion will also get controlled.
history has clear prooves that those religions that tried to show tolerance
with islam are vanished.very few parsis are left in iran and in this world.there are no budhists in afghanistan.you don't beleive in religion that's fine
i have seen many people on net who don't beleive in it.but none of them
tries to defend islam like you because islam is the root cause of conflicts
between religions.
chk1 good luck sister, and wish you success in your journey.
for me religion is higher then marriage, there is no true love other then with Vaahiguroo. Even gods and goddesses die to have the opportunity to be born as sikhs of Satguroo.
The new age spirituality things, I have tried them for many yrs, they bring you peace within, but thats about it. Without Satguroo, the goal of life is not fullfilled.
sister, the love which you believe in, is emotional attachment, and is one of the five enemies in us.
You must have read in Rehiraas Sahib, about people drowning in the burning pool of emotional attachment.
I told you earlier also, whatever you do, dont leave Satguroo jee, this is my only suggestion to you. You yourself know the beauty of the Gurus teachings, these are not to be found in any other faith.
Im saying from expereince, because I know your state, the drug of emotional attachment, even if the whole world comes to help you, its useless. But the cure you dont want it, because it will cause you tremondous pain.
Anyway, I was doing today's hukamnama katha translation, and maybe Guru ji is talking to you. Here's a line from there.
He alone is called your companion, who will not be separated from you, here or hereafter. That pleasure, which passes away in an instant, is trivial. || Pause ||
for me religion is higher then marriage, there is no true love other then with Vaahiguroo. Even gods and goddesses die to have the opportunity to be born as sikhs of Satguroo.
The new age spirituality things, I have tried them for many yrs, they bring you peace within, but thats about it. Without Satguroo, the goal of life is not fullfilled.
sister, the love which you believe in, is emotional attachment, and is one of the five enemies in us.
You must have read in Rehiraas Sahib, about people drowning in the burning pool of emotional attachment.
I told you earlier also, whatever you do, dont leave Satguroo jee, this is my only suggestion to you. You yourself know the beauty of the Gurus teachings, these are not to be found in any other faith.
Im saying from expereince, because I know your state, the drug of emotional attachment, even if the whole world comes to help you, its useless. But the cure you dont want it, because it will cause you tremondous pain.
Anyway, I was doing today's hukamnama katha translation, and maybe Guru ji is talking to you. Here's a line from there.
He alone is called your companion, who will not be separated from you, here or hereafter. That pleasure, which passes away in an instant, is trivial. || Pause ||
Chk1
The big difference is my belief system doesn't brainwash me into thinking this is the only way in the world and any deviation leads to damnation.
Singhs are clean in ALL of this. We respect other people's cultural boundaries. We don't have elements within us who organise campaigns to try and corrupt and abuse girls of other faiths or break up families for our own personal lust.
Despite all of your very flowery statements I'm REAL glad there are die hard Sikhs out there. I'm glad there are still Sikh men who would react appropriately when some pervy bloke tries some mind numbingly disgusting tactics to lure his daughter/sister.
If Sikhs just sat there talking that stuff you are we would have been finished a long time ago.
Good for all those hardcore stubborn Sikh men and women out there. Whatever happens, at least we can say we never just threw our own people to the dogs and and smilingly whistled our way into oblivion. Good for the guys who still have the heart to fight.
Even if you are blinded by love/lust or whatever don't tell me that Islam hasn't got a filthy track record with how they've treated nonMuslims. Including your own ancestors. Why not ask your bloke to convert, see how he would like that. Ask him how his father would havce reacted if some sardar came to his house and said "can i have your daughter" no matter how polite he was.
Don't think you are the only one who has experienced what you're going through. Do you not think that many of us Sikh blokes don't get attention ourselves? I've gotton close to someone myself. In the end though I could never start insulting my own people over a lover like you have. You should be ashamed of that. So what - our community isn't keen on inter-marriages! I live in predominantly muslim area, they are even LESS keen than our people!! But I don't hear the whinging stuff you're coming out with from their girls(probably because it would seriously cost them dearly - and you know that is true!)
My pride is not an arrogant, irrational, ignorant one. But based on the knowledge that not very long ago my ancestors fought the most terrifying odds against the most savage of adversaries and prevailed. That is the stuff fairytales are made of, but my people actually pulled it off. And when they won, they didn't mass savage and brutalise unlike some. That is something to be REAL proud of. But just because they were compassionate, it doesn't give us an excuse to start sleeping with the enemy.
Do what you want but don't try to use Sikh philiosophy as some sort of prop or support for your actions please.
The big difference is my belief system doesn't brainwash me into thinking this is the only way in the world and any deviation leads to damnation.
Singhs are clean in ALL of this. We respect other people's cultural boundaries. We don't have elements within us who organise campaigns to try and corrupt and abuse girls of other faiths or break up families for our own personal lust.
Despite all of your very flowery statements I'm REAL glad there are die hard Sikhs out there. I'm glad there are still Sikh men who would react appropriately when some pervy bloke tries some mind numbingly disgusting tactics to lure his daughter/sister.
If Sikhs just sat there talking that stuff you are we would have been finished a long time ago.
Good for all those hardcore stubborn Sikh men and women out there. Whatever happens, at least we can say we never just threw our own people to the dogs and and smilingly whistled our way into oblivion. Good for the guys who still have the heart to fight.
Even if you are blinded by love/lust or whatever don't tell me that Islam hasn't got a filthy track record with how they've treated nonMuslims. Including your own ancestors. Why not ask your bloke to convert, see how he would like that. Ask him how his father would havce reacted if some sardar came to his house and said "can i have your daughter" no matter how polite he was.
Don't think you are the only one who has experienced what you're going through. Do you not think that many of us Sikh blokes don't get attention ourselves? I've gotton close to someone myself. In the end though I could never start insulting my own people over a lover like you have. You should be ashamed of that. So what - our community isn't keen on inter-marriages! I live in predominantly muslim area, they are even LESS keen than our people!! But I don't hear the whinging stuff you're coming out with from their girls(probably because it would seriously cost them dearly - and you know that is true!)
My pride is not an arrogant, irrational, ignorant one. But based on the knowledge that not very long ago my ancestors fought the most terrifying odds against the most savage of adversaries and prevailed. That is the stuff fairytales are made of, but my people actually pulled it off. And when they won, they didn't mass savage and brutalise unlike some. That is something to be REAL proud of. But just because they were compassionate, it doesn't give us an excuse to start sleeping with the enemy.
Do what you want but don't try to use Sikh philiosophy as some sort of prop or support for your actions please.
Nadeem
SPNer
The way I see it is that each community has built a protective wall around itself so that members of "other communities" are always perceived as "outsiders". Each community wants to be the "Best" offering the "only true path". Any genuine respect and love for communities "other than our own" is automatically met with suspicion, derision and scorn. In this way of thinking, genuine self-love and genuine love-for-others evaporates in a puff of smoke; what replaces it is a kind of blindness or "stubbornness" that has virtually nothing spiritual, uplifting or pleasing to the heart, about it. Marriages are not simple or easy things, particularly if they are 'inter-religious'. It is easier to hate others than it is to love them. But the real question is: why should this necessarily be the case? Why cannot it be easy to love and difficult to hate? There are marriages between Muslims and Sikhs, between Muslims and Hindus that work very well, despite the hatred and suspicion of narrow minded individuals and when they do work they should be respected and not despised. One thing is clear and irrefutable no matter what religion you believe to be true; namely, that when you hate "others" you are actually hating yourself. The great Gurus continue to live as powerful symbols of Love; borne out of a kind of purity of Love. We defile their memory when we hate. There is nothing in any scripture that suggests that this purity has been lost or is impossible to obtain today. So my advice is: get wise and stop hating yourself by hating others. As a Muslim, do I hate the Sikhs who hate the Islamic religion? My answer is: absolutely not. Why? Because I know, given Guru Nanak's spirituality, that such individuals cannot be the best representatives of their own religion nor can they really claim to carry the wise and lofty teachings of the Great Gurus; this is because God is in the center and all paths lead to Him - Ek Ong Kar & Wahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh 
The way I see it is that each community has built a protective wall around itself so that members of "other communities" are always perceived as "outsiders". Each community wants to be the "Best" offering the "only true path". Any genuine respect and love for communities "other than our own" is automatically met with suspicion, derision and scorn. In this way of thinking, genuine self-love and genuine love-for-others evaporates in a puff of smoke; what replaces it is a kind of blindness or "stubbornness" that has virtually nothing spiritual, uplifting or pleasing to the heart, about it. Marriages are not simple or easy things, particularly if they are 'inter-religious'. It is easier to hate others than it is to love them. But the real question is: why should this necessarily be the case? Why cannot it be easy to love and difficult to hate? There are marriages between Muslims and Sikhs, between Muslims and Hindus that work very well, despite the hatred and suspicion of narrow minded individuals and when they do work they should be respected and not despised. One thing is clear and irrefutable no matter what religion you believe to be true; namely, that when you hate "others" you are actually hating yourself. The great Gurus continue to live as powerful symbols of Love; borne out of a kind of purity of Love. We defile their memory when we hate. There is nothing in any scripture that suggests that this purity has been lost or is impossible to obtain today. So my advice is: get wise and stop hating yourself by hating others. As a Muslim, do I hate the Sikhs who hate the Islamic religion? My answer is: absolutely not. Why? Because I know, given Guru Nanak's spirituality, that such individuals cannot be the best representatives of their own religion nor can they really claim to carry the wise and lofty teachings of the Great Gurus; this is because [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]God is in the center and all paths lead to Him - [/FONT]Ek Ong Kar & [SIZE=-1]Wahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
[/SIZE]
dear nadeem
It is good to see that tolerant muslims like you.we have nothing against you.but what i don't understand is why don't you people spread the message of tolerance and equality
on islamic forums.i also regularly surf muslim forums and i ahve never found muslims like you on those sites.
let me show you something from muslim forum
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118801
here a muslim girl want to marry a sikh boy.the only type of advice is allowed to give
on ummah.com is that she should ask her sikh boyfriend to convert to islam or she should leave her.other advices are deleted.now tell me when majority of muslims have such
hatred for other religions then you should not blame some sikhs for hating muslims.
Hi
In regards to Nadeem's comments I can see where you are coming from and wish others from both our communities could be a little more open-minded and less ignorant. I have a real mixture of friends and have learnt a great deal from them not only on faith issues but life in general. However it would also be ignorant not to acknowledge that there are some from the Muslim community that are in the business of converting. The reason why I say "business" is because I truly believe that these people are not those of true faith but almost seek to convert for benefits of their own gain . They employ manipulation and emotional black-mail to those who are deemed to be easy targets. I very much doubt that someone is forcibly converted but I do think manipluation dressed up as love plays a key role. But surly this is just as dangerous? Now I am also sure that there are some couples that really are in love, if that is the case why does either need to convert? Sikhism acknowledge and respects peoples freedom of choice and believe that all paths to God are equal. But does Islam preach the same?
During my time at uni we often came across news articles of successful muslim businessman promising young muslim guys thousands of pounds for each girl they convert. I am not saying this is the norm, but it clearly happened.
While there are clearly some differences between the two faiths their are also some commonalities. I think hatered derives from ignorance. We should aim to educate others of the true meaning of our respective faiths as well as appreciating what we have.
Wahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
Neet
In regards to Nadeem's comments I can see where you are coming from and wish others from both our communities could be a little more open-minded and less ignorant. I have a real mixture of friends and have learnt a great deal from them not only on faith issues but life in general. However it would also be ignorant not to acknowledge that there are some from the Muslim community that are in the business of converting. The reason why I say "business" is because I truly believe that these people are not those of true faith but almost seek to convert for benefits of their own gain . They employ manipulation and emotional black-mail to those who are deemed to be easy targets. I very much doubt that someone is forcibly converted but I do think manipluation dressed up as love plays a key role. But surly this is just as dangerous? Now I am also sure that there are some couples that really are in love, if that is the case why does either need to convert? Sikhism acknowledge and respects peoples freedom of choice and believe that all paths to God are equal. But does Islam preach the same?
During my time at uni we often came across news articles of successful muslim businessman promising young muslim guys thousands of pounds for each girl they convert. I am not saying this is the norm, but it clearly happened.
While there are clearly some differences between the two faiths their are also some commonalities. I think hatered derives from ignorance. We should aim to educate others of the true meaning of our respective faiths as well as appreciating what we have.
Wahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
Neet
dear neet it is not muslims vs sikhs it is muslims vs every other religion.muslims are in conflict with hindu's ,muslims are in conflict with christians and even they are in conflict
with atheists so it means problem is with muslims.of course their are some very good muslims much better than sikhs but the problem they are not taking the the charge of their religion or they just do not spread the message of tolerence to their other co religionists.
Hi Kds1980
Hence the point I make is that there are some clear differences (i.e. Sikhi respects and values other paths to God while Islam has a narrow approach-in the sense that only Muslims are seen as worthy of God as no other religion is deemed "the right one"). But there also commonalities such as helping those less fortunate then you.
Do you not think the world would be a better place if people took the time to really understand those that they were ignorant of?
Look at the death of Balbir Singh Sodhi in the US. He was murdered by a white guy because he thought he was a muslim (becuase of his physical appearance (pugh and beard)). Now firstly if the cold-blooded killer took the time to educate himself about others he would know three vital facts. One Mr Sodhi was not a Muslim but a Sikh. Two the 9/11 attackers were extremists and not reflective of the Muslim population. Three Muslims were also killed in the attacks.
This man's death could have been prevented if the murder was less ignorant.
I do also recognise your point, clearly the Muslim people need to be more accepting and tolerant of others. As do the wider community. But I think this is where education plays a key role.
Hence the point I make is that there are some clear differences (i.e. Sikhi respects and values other paths to God while Islam has a narrow approach-in the sense that only Muslims are seen as worthy of God as no other religion is deemed "the right one"). But there also commonalities such as helping those less fortunate then you.
Do you not think the world would be a better place if people took the time to really understand those that they were ignorant of?
Look at the death of Balbir Singh Sodhi in the US. He was murdered by a white guy because he thought he was a muslim (becuase of his physical appearance (pugh and beard)). Now firstly if the cold-blooded killer took the time to educate himself about others he would know three vital facts. One Mr Sodhi was not a Muslim but a Sikh. Two the 9/11 attackers were extremists and not reflective of the Muslim population. Three Muslims were also killed in the attacks.
This man's death could have been prevented if the murder was less ignorant.
I do also recognise your point, clearly the Muslim people need to be more accepting and tolerant of others. As do the wider community. But I think this is where education plays a key role.
dear neet
you are right education plays a key role.but the main factor is from where you get it. The muslim education is in hands fanatic mullahs which don't want general population of muslims to mix with other religions.In india muslims have their own slums own colonies.unlike other
minorities they don't want their children to mix with other religions.muslim community
in india is poor but the demand of muslim leaders is shariat courts,opening of more madrasas ,islamic banking.their leaders don't demand economic development.moreover very few muslim families allow their daughters to go to common college.this type
of mentality need to be changed.
Fairpoint, some traditions or so called values need to be erdicated (restricted education for girls or not intergrating with the rest of society). Intergration and equality are needed the world over. If what you say in your post above is reality in India I feel for children growing up without the opportunity to mix with others, this will be to their detriment.
it is reality.recently a news was shown about municipal elections of delhi.the candidates this time decided to take help of women party workers in muslim areas to ask muslim
women what are their demands and to pursue them to vote for their party candidate because muslim women do not talk to male party workers or candidates.
one muslim women openly said on T.v. that "hum log gair mard ke samane nahin aa saktin" we cannot come out in front of unknown men.
satinder singh
SPNer
- Apr 13, 2006
- 6
- 0
waheguru jee ke fateh
it is sad to see the discussion based on jatts & non-jatts. we are still into same age old confrontations. it was amusing though to see that evry body considers and accepts that our boys and girls are gettings into drugs , gangwars, alcohal , smuugling , thefts and other such devoius acts. but what we are fighting hard over is that wether they are jatts or non-jatts. if we are sikhs and our children who are shikhs and if they are rejecting their faith and getting involved with such activities than it becomes our primrary duty to get them back into our fold . doed it mater if i m in UK ,USA,CANADA , INDIA or AUSTRALIA. evry where the climate and envoirnment may be diffrent but our faith is still the same our guru is same "GUR GRANTH SAHIB" and we shell be KHALSA evrywhere. why can't our sikh boys and girls marry in the sikh families and hv sikh spouses. hv we lost compassion , love , personalities and beauty in our community? hv we become a bunch of ugly and un worhty people that we feel pride in marring with people from other relgions? i think we shell find answers to these questions and fight over being jaat, non-jaat etc.
bhullan di khima
waheguru jee kee fateh
it is sad to see the discussion based on jatts & non-jatts. we are still into same age old confrontations. it was amusing though to see that evry body considers and accepts that our boys and girls are gettings into drugs , gangwars, alcohal , smuugling , thefts and other such devoius acts. but what we are fighting hard over is that wether they are jatts or non-jatts. if we are sikhs and our children who are shikhs and if they are rejecting their faith and getting involved with such activities than it becomes our primrary duty to get them back into our fold . doed it mater if i m in UK ,USA,CANADA , INDIA or AUSTRALIA. evry where the climate and envoirnment may be diffrent but our faith is still the same our guru is same "GUR GRANTH SAHIB" and we shell be KHALSA evrywhere. why can't our sikh boys and girls marry in the sikh families and hv sikh spouses. hv we lost compassion , love , personalities and beauty in our community? hv we become a bunch of ugly and un worhty people that we feel pride in marring with people from other relgions? i think we shell find answers to these questions and fight over being jaat, non-jaat etc.
bhullan di khima
waheguru jee kee fateh
satinder singh
SPNer
- Apr 13, 2006
- 6
- 0
muslims wants to remain a close community worldwide. even ion UK you find muslims living together in close knitt socity. i dont find anything wrong with the arrangement. the wrong aspect to me is thir being fanatic to the extent that they dont tolrate other faiths . progressive muslims or regressive musims if you r true follower of your faith you will not harm others because evrybody is free to pray to god in it's own manner. education probably makes a diffrence.financial positions do make diffrence. but at the end of all this what makes a human true human is to be true to your faith and respect the followers of other faiths.
bhullan di khima
bhullan di khima
Satinder Singh
Yes some muslims do segregate themselves from the community but this shouldn't be the case, I am sure the fact that some are fanatics and extremists is linked to the fact that they choose to live in their own bubble with limited interaction with those of differing or no faith thus making them ignorant and narrow-minded.
My instinct is to say that the Islamic faith does not lend itself to being open-minded and equal and respectful to all (of other faiths, men, women etc). However I feel that I do not know enough about their faith to make such a bold and generalising statement. Nor do I want to fall at the pitfall of stereotyping the majority based on extremists. Although I should point out that this in no way diminishes my faith and belief in Sikhi. If anything it makes me even more appreciative of what Sikhism stands for.
I am conscious that I have moved away from the thread topic-so will leave it at that!
Yes some muslims do segregate themselves from the community but this shouldn't be the case, I am sure the fact that some are fanatics and extremists is linked to the fact that they choose to live in their own bubble with limited interaction with those of differing or no faith thus making them ignorant and narrow-minded.
My instinct is to say that the Islamic faith does not lend itself to being open-minded and equal and respectful to all (of other faiths, men, women etc). However I feel that I do not know enough about their faith to make such a bold and generalising statement. Nor do I want to fall at the pitfall of stereotyping the majority based on extremists. Although I should point out that this in no way diminishes my faith and belief in Sikhi. If anything it makes me even more appreciative of what Sikhism stands for.
I am conscious that I have moved away from the thread topic-so will leave it at that!
Chk1 I have to say for some reason I have to agree with your above statement. It seems like people here have a problem with you having an opinion/choice in life because it contradicts the Rehit Maryada. I can't say personally I would marry someone who is not a Sikh, but then I wouldn't want to marry an extremist Sikh for that matter. Anyways just wanted to wish you all the best for the future and hope that your fate is not like the one's predicted by fellow members here. Many Sikh's will disagree with your choice but what they don't remember is that everything happens at God's will.
📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:
