Islam Sikh-Muslim Marriages

[lalihayer]

Dear Dalsingh,

Thank you for the last post.

You have asked a number of additional questions that are not directly related to the theme of Sikh-Muslim Marriages.

I suggest that you start a new thread in another section (maybe one that is related to interfaith dialogue) where I will be happy to respond.


Respectfully,

Nadeem

Nadeem,
You are a muslim but has a respect for both religions. I know Guru Granth Sahib contains many writing from sufis of muslim background. But all the writings are in line with Gurmat and their is no mention of your prophet. Word 'Allah' is used many times, but it used as one of the many of Lord's names. Sufis' writings just show love and longing for Lord.
On the other hand their are clear condemnations for fasting(pg 216,337 and many more),burial practices(pg 466) and sunnat(pg 477 ln 16). You can't keep you feet in two boats. It has to be Gurmat or Quran.

 

[Nadeem]

Nadeem,
You are a muslim but has a respect for both religions. I know Guru Granth Sahib contains many writing from sufis of muslim background. But all the writings are in line with Gurmat and their is no mention of your prophet. Word 'Allah' is used many times, but it used as one of the many of Lord's names. Sufis' writings just show love and longing for Lord.
On the other hand their are clear condemnations for fasting(pg 216,337 and many more),burial practices(pg 466) and sunnat(pg 477 ln 16). You can't keep you feet in two boats. It has to be Gurmat or Quran.

lalihayer writes: "You can't keep you[r] feet in two boats. It has to be Gurmat or Quran."

Is this statement not another example of the presention of a false dichotomy as an inevitable choice? Clearly, in the teachings of both the Quran and Gurmat there is mention of other faiths and God's overriding presence. If there is a dichotomy to be made then let us say that those who directly perceive God's presence on earth are one group and those who see separate Gods in separate religions form another group. Fortunately, we have good examples from both religions to disprove your point about the differences.

 

[lalihayer]

lalihayer writes: "You can't keep you[r] feet in two boats. It has to be Gurmat or Quran."

Is this statement not another example of the presention of a false dichotomy as an inevitable choice? Clearly, in the teachings of both the Quran and Gurmat there is mention of other faiths and God's overriding presence. If there is a dichotomy to be made then let us say that those who directly perceive God's presence on earth are one group and those who see separate Gods in separate religions form another group. Fortunately, we have good examples from both religions to disprove your point about the differences.

Yes, there is only one Almighty. There has to be. Difference is the way to get there.

 

[Nadeem]

Yes, there is only one Almighty. There has to be. Difference is the way to get there.

If there is only ONE Almighty then surely similarity or unity is the best, if not the fastest possible way to get there? Why choose difference if the Almighty chooses otherwise?

 

[Hiccupme]

i am a muslim woman who is very open and interested in the sikh faith, i do not intend to convert and myself into a sikh and i have no intentions to convert my partner into a muslim. However i find the prejudice against muslim men or women is a little harsh. I know, and do admit that there are faults in Muslim men but this is not due to Faith but due to negligence of Faith. Islam does not teach men to rape, it does not permitt you to take part in violence it does not teach you to abuse or harm ANY faith whatsoever! Instead it teaches you to embrace the world and the residents of it and spread peach and harmony, as does Sikhism.

I find that my partner and my relationship is made difficult by ignorance of both our religions.

When talking about oppression, i find it a little hard to comprehend, i am Muslim and i do not wear the burkha by MY OWN choice not because im with a Sikh but because i dont feel i can extent my faith that way.
Those who wear it may well be forced to wear it but this is due to IGNORANCE and lack of Islamic Knowledge. I am NO scholar but these things are close to my heart as i feel that negitivity on both sides brings this world apart.
Knowledge is the key to existence of harmony.
love eachother and learn from the good.
p.s I MAY BE WRONG AGAIN I AM NO SCHOLAR SO PLEASE NO PERSONAL ATTACKS LOL!
thank you and god bless

 

[dalsingh]

Most of us are familiar with the concept of memory and how events in an individual life can shape perceptions for a long time. The same, I would argue, applies to what has been termed as corporate memory or the collective memory of a group.

It is no secret that during the 1700s, people perceived to be Muslims, let loose a reign of terror on Sikhs that didn't even spare children. Taking away the children and women of enemies is a feature of Islamic societies from the days of the prophet himself. Also whether acknowledged or not, the Wahhabi style of Islam is pretty evil towards non believers, and dehumanises them to extremes. This allows people adhering to such doctrines to commit the most heinous of srimes against them, including murder and torture.

Thankfully, the history of the Khalsa gives a clear example of how such brutality can be crushed and stopped dead in its tracks.

My point is that many Muslims refuse to acknowledge this aspect of Islam. Given the actions of Muslims (Moghul, Persian and Afghanistani and Pakistani) in the recent history of Panjab, it is no surprise that many Sikhs view Islam with suspicion. This is the corporate memory of a people. Playing down the brutality and evil committed in the name of Islam on Sikhs is just not on in my mind. Because it almost guarantees such events will reoccur again in the future sometime. Then the Khalsa will have to get up and smack those mothas down again.

 

[Hiccupme]

ahh see that is where ignorance comes into it.
GENERALISATION! You cannot generalise and apply the doing's of certain groups of people and apply the negative's to all Moghul, Persian and Afghanistani and Pakistani people.

 

[dalsingh]

ahh see that is where ignorance comes into it.
GENERALISATION! You cannot generalise and apply the doing's of certain groups of people and apply the negative's to all Moghul, Persian and Afghanistani and Pakistani people.

No not at all, I'm not implying all of those people act like some of their ancestors did. I know many of such people who I know to be pleasant. But ignorance also stems from ignoring the impact of the sustained brutal oppression of a people over successive generations. That is like ignoring the possible impact of slavery on Afro-Americans etc.

The troublesome Sikh-Islamic relationship isn't just a historical relic. Only 60 odd years ago, another mass butchering of Sikhs took place at partition. This was no minor affair and was the largest example of ethnic cleansing in modern times. Given this situation, it doesn't surprise me that their is suspicion between the groups. Rape and kidnap of females was prevalent in all this. From my talks with elders in the community I know this is etched on the minds of those who survived.

I wonder if any Muslims ever explore the nature of the relationship between Sikhs and Muslims in this light, and what conclusions they draw? I know slavery and harems were features of Islamic culture. I wonder if this plays any part in this?

 

[gurpreet singh bubber]

After looking all messages i come in conclusion, what you all are looking for. Do u want 2 marry muslim or other caste girl, and you people are asking these question just to make ur soul little bit rest (dil ko sakuun)after watching these scraps posted by peoples.

Not even a single holy book says anything about marriage with other caste girl but still they follow with their family do.

So, know come to the topic marriage with different caste girls, it depand what child gets from their parents, society where he lives, culture and environment. The non- sikh women can only give her religion knowledge to their childrens, it is true but how can we say that she will not teach her children with sikhi??can't say again depend on husband and wife relation.

so, marriage with different caste girl, is always a big issue.??? why did the lord krishan ji married with rukmini, why he didn't marry with radha ji, but till 2day we all pray with name rahda-krishan. Did krishan ji didn't married due to caste system that radha ji was poor girl and krishan ji was rich. no no no. Radhi ji was also a devin roop of lakshmi.

Think you all get confuse what i m talking about, yes becasue this whole think always confused me also when i just start research on that, because this whole things are inter-related with one and other so, only guru granth sahib ji, give you all answer of your question. But finally, I get conclusion that listen what your heart says, what your religion says.

IT IS HIGHLY RECCOMENDED THAT YOU FOLLOW YOUR RELIGION, AND ALWAYS FACE THE TRUTH, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, IN KAL YUG IF THE PERSON NEVER PRAY FOR GURU NANAK DEV JI, THAT PERSON IS STILL NOT BORN AND THESE WORDS ARE TRUE.

WARM REGARDS
GURPREET SINGH BUBBER

 

[makkanz]

Why is it that the focus is always on past atrocities or on negatives. Why not positives? I read these discussions and inevitibly these discussions go back to who did what. Ok ... so the muslims committed atrocities against sikhs ... what now? Move past it ... Those people who did this are long gone ... 99.9% people now are just getting on with their lives ..I have yet to see a thread on how we can combine the positive aspects of both sets of beliefs to create harmony ... I find it very frustration when people are stuck in a rut like this .. and finding fault seems to be a hobby with most people in this particular part of the forum ....Goes to show .... negative attitudes ....
And ... wasnt the sikh faith created to overcome differences between the two religions and also to move the focus back to god rather than the mechanics inherent in the main faiths? Isn't that the core of the belief ? That all are equal and one should be at peace with god and to feel the presence of god .... Yet all people seem to be doing here is argue about the mechanics !!!! STUPID !!!!

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Last week das got a task.There was girl from Muslim faith wanted to marry the Sikh Boy.They approached local incharge of RSS(Sikh wing).

Das was asked to let girl undergo baptism and then there be Anand Karaj.

Das immediatly contacted local Granthi,He has done two years missionary coursse.

He gave few ifs and buts to the das.
1.If she could not comply with Amrit Later(Das asked him that does he gurantee that all Amritdharis will comply after Baptism).
2.Let there be a good number of Amrit seekers.
3.Let them wait till wednesday when grup Amrit Sanchar is done is .
4.He does not know how to convert
5. First go and take permission from local management committe
etc.

Has this been Hindu Temple ,Church or Mosque such things were trival.

Das then contacted another Granthi Ji native of Rajasthan in old Delhi Gurudwara.He studied from Sant Sadhu Singh Ji Sevapanthi(who in turn has studied from Amritsari Taksal).

These Granthi ji gavve time of next morning for Baptism and Anand Karaj.That day das understrood that why in many Gurudwaras we have Five Banis read in the Morning(Japu Ji Sahib,Japu Sahib,Sudha Swayye Sahib,Chaupayee Sahib and Anand Sahib).

By them during any morning we can prepari Amrit and conver the person after Five Banis are said.

Das also saw one person related high ranking Gurudwara Committee fearfull of Muslim Back lash and told that change of name should not come in prominent news paper.

For last mnay years das has seen numbers of Sikhs ladies changing thier name to Muslims names after marrige in prominent newspaper.Muslims nenver feared the Sikh Backlash.About two weaks before in name Change colum of Hindustan Times in English.Das saw a lady with surname Kaur and Chadda,living in Arab Area,notifying her conversion to Islam more then once.

So das thinks that more than education it is speed to take decison which matters more in religeous affairs.In Villages people say that too much education makes the person coward.Das thinks otherwise.It is too much non practical,theoratical education which makes person impractical.

 

[SimSim_26]

Point 1 ...Sikhs have a big alcohol problem wherever they are from.

Not all sikhs have alcohol problems, that is too much of a generalization and steroetyping the lot on a few.

All the singhs and kaurs i know wouldn't touch liquor if you begged them.

 

[kds1980]

Why is it that the focus is always on past atrocities or on negatives. Why not positives? I read these discussions and inevitibly these discussions go back to who did what. Ok ... so the muslims committed atrocities against Sikhs ... what now?

Hello makkanz

How are you

The question is not about past the question is of secularism and embracing other religions.Whenever Muslims are in minority they demand equal rights,freedom of religion and many more.But they pass 50% and become majority they start implementing islamic laws.Minorities start losing their rights.As I sais again and again It is muslims who need preaching of tolerance and secularism

 

[dalbirk]

These comments r by Mr. V Phool , so with due regards to him I'm posting it there " Political correctness (politeness = political)-politeness doesn't mean freedom. Sikh are conditioned to be polite, as they are by hundishataani movies, every male actor is muslim, whilst have you ever heard of muslim actresses. This image projects falling in love with a muslim man is natural, challenging you to break taboos, and go against your free will. Love conquers all, but does any muslim ever change their religion for love or allow you to keep yours. Political correctness is when a person tells you that religion is not important to them but expect you to convert because they are afraid of their parents, so are you really their love, or their parents come before you-- and are you so unloved by your parents. Ask yourself, if you disrespect them they might not speak to you for a while but they won't kill you, can you say the same for muslim honour killings. People who are afraid they don't truly love -- if you must be with a muslim, and they start the relationship with telling you that they love you, they will die for you. Then ask them to do something simple change their religion to prove how much they love you, before the relationship begins -- you will get your answer, whether they love you or are using you to get 72 virgins in after life, that is what they are promised if they convert someone to their faith -- that is called - TAAQUIA ".

 

[rooh]

In the UK there is supossedly an 'epidemic' of Sikh girls marrying Muslim men.

In Canada, it is apparently the other way around. Muslim girls are marrying Sikh men.

Not sure about the US.

Does anyone know of any instances of Sikhs marrying Muslims (male or female)? What were the main issues/consequences/repercussions?

. As a British citizen, there is no such epidemic. Sikh girls in this country are more educated and independent, and generally dislike the strictures imposed by Islam. In fact many Sikhs wants to disassociate themselves from other Asians generallly. There are a few cases of this going on, but very few, and generally frowned upon in the British Sikh community.

 

[NALWA]

Those Sikh girls who want to marry a Muslim man should read ' 33 Secrets Arab Men Never Tell American Women ' by Cassandra. This book is applicable to all nationalities of Muslim men and all nationalities of women . Sikh women should know well what the are getting into.

 

[NALWA]

I have read some where that Guru Gobind Singh Ji had asked the Sikh men to stay away from "Turk" women. In those days all Muhammadans were called 'Turks'.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

I have read some where that Guru Gobind Singh Ji had asked the Sikh men to stay away from "Turk" women. In those days all Muhammadans were called 'Turks'.

1. Nit said by Guur Ji..but written down by some sikhs in rehitnamah..

2. To stop Sikhs from rampaging/raping/murder etc ....in those times it was normal for conquering parties to rape the enemy women...SIKHS were BANNED from that.

 

[Javanmard]

Marriages between both communities are fobidden by both communities.

 

[ps5babra]

Dear All,

Not true....We are singhs , but there are black sheep in every category. My philosophy is Everything is possible under the son.
What we lack is PRIDE in ouself. I have seen London Sikhs...they are hard worker / dedicated but some of them are...CHUDEs (you know what I mean bhangis..as far as there attitudes/behaviours are concerned , hence the bad name to community.
Many Hindus / Muslims go to Gurudwaras for Lunger daily I ahve seen them..........but they will enter the Kitchen directly...we should stop them doing so first they must bow before the "Guru Granth Sahib"................every granthi MUST keep an eye on such people, we are a part of "Chalta Hai society"....why should we tolerate this...WHY.........
:happy: