Sunny Leone Should Be Excommunicated?

[Harry Haller]

I would excommunicate her for shaving her hair on her cherry and not for her job!!!!

Kala Afghana was excommunicated, you want to excommunicate cherry shavers, and I should be excommuniated for being a mona.

I always thought Sikhs were supposed to be enlightened, forgiving, surely we should be looking for reasons to include people, not bar them.

So she does porn, big deal, as Luckyji says, if it offends you, don't watch it.

Unfortunately, right now, all around the world there are many many oppressed Sikh women, all living a life of misery thanks to the culture they were raised, if she is happy, and content, good luck to her.

 

[Randip Singh]

What if it was a male pornstar with the same success. You would all say well done phaaji, good for you.

.

The gender is of no consequence. If she was a man, I would be disgusted.

There is nothing honorable in porn. Porn promotes Kaam, i.e. an unnatural obsession with sex. Sex per se is not bad, and is part of the natural order and should be enjoyed by men and women, in a relationship.

This is pure filth, and reading that site where she claims to be a Sikh, by her ow words makes me think as a father, I would not want my son or daughter to use her filthy behaviour as a good example.

 

[Randip Singh]

So she does porn, big deal, as Luckyji says, if it offends you, don't watch it.

.

How does someone who promotes Kaam claim to be a Sikh?

If she didn't claim to be a Sikh I don't think anyone would have a problem.

BTW I would include people who promote Hankaar, Moh, Lobh and Krodh in the same boat.

This is a fundemental requirement of trying to be a Sikh. I cannot see how it can be reconcilled by working in such an industry.

As you say good luck to her, but as a father I will certainly be teaching my children that that is a person she/he does not want to emulate. In fact I would use them as a poor model for humanity in general.

 

[Randip Singh]

The funny thing is that if she were due to make an appearance for something within the sikh community be it a dance, ball or sports event..etc.. Then I'm certain that NONE of the men from the sikh community would object to her appearance !!!

What kind of "Sikhs" would they be?

They would just be people who have the appearance of Sikhs.

 

[Randip Singh]

Btw,

This is my view, from an earlier post:

Originally Posted by Randip Singh
I think that's the point, we are not in a position to judge, but she shouldn't really judge the faith either. See the statement she made about other women finding God and leaving the industry.

Also we seem to excommunicate people from Sikhism like Inder Singh Ghagga and others, yet people like this are not looked at. I find the whole dea of excommunication ridiculous.

 

[jasbirkaleka]

At least she is not a hypocrite, like a wast majority of us are.

 

[Archived_member15]

“...'But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?' They said, 'The first.' Jesus said to them, 'Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you. For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him.'..."

- Jesus Christ (Gospel of Matthew 21:28-32)

btw:

sunny leone (born karenjit kaur vohra may 13, 1981) is a canadian actress, businesswoman, model andformer pornographic actress

This reminds me very much of the old adage (saying):

"A wounded deer leaps the highest"

"...One of the Pharisees asked Jesus to eat with him, and he went into the Pharisee's house and took his place at the table. And a woman in the city, who was a sinner, having learned that he was eating in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster jar of ointment. She stood behind him at his feet, weeping, and began to bathe his feet with her tears and to dry them with her hair. Then she continued kissing his feet and anointing them with the ointment. Now when the Pharisee who had invited him saw it, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would have known who and what kind of woman this is who is touching him--that she is a sinner." Jesus spoke up and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." "Teacher," he replied, "Speak." "A certain creditor had two debtors; one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they could not pay, he canceled the debts for both of them. Now which of them will love him more?" Simon answered, "I suppose the one for whom he canceled the greater debt." And Jesus said to him, "You have judged rightly." Then turning toward the woman, he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has bathed my feet with her tears and dried them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore, I tell you, her sins, which were many, have been forgiven; because she has shown great love. But the one to whom little is forgiven, loves little." Then he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." But those who were at the table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."..."

Luke 7:36-50

Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him and he sat down and began to teach them. <SUP></SUP>The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them,<SUP></SUP>they said to him, ‘Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. <SUP></SUP>Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?’ <SUP></SUP>They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. <SUP></SUP>When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, ‘Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.’ <SUP></SUP>And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground.<SUP></SUP>When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. <SUP></SUP>Jesus straightened up and said to her, ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ <SUP></SUP>She said, ‘No one, sir.’ And Jesus said, ‘Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again.’

- Jesus Christ, (John 8. 2 – 11)

 

[Randip Singh]

At least she is not a hypocrite, like a wast majority of us are.

Jasbir ji, that is the crux of what is being debated here. Like many pakhadhi's out there who claim to be a Sikh, she too is claiming to be a Sikh.

The question is, would I like her to be a role model for my kids, or Bibi Nanaki, and Mai Bhago?

I would draw a line also between smut like porn, and nudity as an art form, or even things like the Karma Sutra.

 

[Randip Singh]

btw:



This reminds me very much of the old adage (saying):

"A wounded deer leaps the highest"

Indeed, I think our capacity to forgive should have no measure.

I think if someone like this can turn her back on such an industry and state look I made a mistake, I think people would respect her.

Many figures in history have done, this, Chandmaurya Gupta, Sajjan Thug, as well as Mary Magdalene.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Page 106


<TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR bgColor=#babac7><TD>ਆਪੇ ਬਖਸਿ ਕਰੇ ਜੀਅ ਸਾਰਾ ॥


Āpe bakẖas kare jī▫a sārā.

He gives and forgives us all


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਅਪਨੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਨੋ ਆਪਿ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲੇ ਪਇ ਪੈਰੀ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਮਨਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥


Apne kīṯe no āp parṯipāle pa▫i pairī ṯisėh manā▫ī jī▫o. ||2||

He Himself nurtures and cherishes His Creation. I fall at His Feet and surrender to Him. ||2||
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[ballym]

First off, our Gurus never asked us to judge a person by what JOB they do. I would appreciate her for her boldness in accepting what she does.
Everyone of us do all or some of 5 kurehits( bad habits?) or whatever u call it.
and we are also equally responsible by being a purchaser of her or similar services. please do not read this as a subscription to......
If she still talks about her religion and her family/father and mother, I would say that she is more of a sikh than many of us.I appreciate that she is leone.... singhni
If everything is going fine in life, it is easy to follow or pretend to follow accepted form of religion or show to others that I am following my religion.
Guru nanak Dev ji said that we should be inclusive. That is why theory of ex-communication is against sikh religion.
BTW, Ishna Ji, even though you seem to be a moderate person and I agree with most of your viewpoints, I would like to point out that Whisky Tango Foxtrot is not appropriate for sikhphilosophy ID. Moderators please note.

 

[Randip Singh]

First off, our Gurus never asked us to judge a person by what JOB they do. I would appreciate her for her boldness in accepting what she does.
Everyone of us do all or some of 5 kurehits( bad habits?) or whatever u call it.
and we are also equally responsible by being a purchaser of her or similar services. please do not read this as a subscription to......
If she still talks about her religion and her family/father and mother, I would say that she is more of a sikh than many of us.I appreciate that she is leone.... singhni
If everything is going fine in life, it is easy to follow or pretend to follow accepted form of religion or show to others that I am following my religion.
Guru nanak Dev ji said that we should be inclusive. That is why theory of ex-communication is against sikh religion.
BTW, Ishna Ji, even though you seem to be a moderate person and I agree with most of your viewpoints, I would like to point out that Whisky Tango Foxtrot is not appropriate for sikhphilosophy ID. Moderators please note.

You are coorect that Sikhism does not jusdge people by their job, but what it does say is that we have to be weary of the 5 thieves i.e.Kaam , Krodh , Moh, Lobh and Hankaar as it drives us away from Waheguru.

None of us is perfect and we struggle with the 5 thieves everyday, but for someone who activiley promotes the 5 thieves and thinks its great, and then claim it's the Sikh way, is really a bit too much.

Saying that, I think the concept of ex-communication is a bit daft really, as people who promote the 5 thieves and then think its the Sikh way is a form of self ex-communication or self delusion.

 

[Ishna]

Modified as per request...

 

[vaulakh]

Ex-communication cannot solve the the problem.Most pornstars join the pornographic industry because of their avaricious nature or they are addicted to drugs.Moreover polygamy is common in western countries,sexual morality is irrelevant to these girls.Apart from Sunny Leone there are a few other Indian pornstars.Certainly,their number will increase in future as Sikhs in western countries are abandoning their culture but consider themselves more civilized by adapting western way of life.

 

[Ishna]

You know if you try harder you can bash westerners even more?

As a caucasian Westerner I do find your overgeneralisation of my culture a bit offensive. I don't mind people pointing fingers at the dirt in my culture when it's balanced with the realisation that their own cultures are not perfect either. Blaming the woes of your own culture on another one is a cop out.

I could say India is full of mysogynistic male control freaks but I won't because that would be an overgeneralisation, wouldn't it?

 

[vaulakh]

You know if you try harder you can bash westerners even more?

As a caucasian Westerner I do find your overgeneralisation of my culture a bit offensive. I don't mind people pointing fingers at the dirt in my culture when it's balanced with the realisation that their own cultures are not perfect either. Blaming the woes of your own culture on another one is a cop out.

I could say India is full of mysogynistic male control freaks but I won't because that would be an overgeneralisation, wouldn't it?

It is your ego that offends you,because in your biography you have written that you are proud to be westerner.Please read CAREFULLY my reply to your post in The Current State of Sikhism in the West and notice that I do realize social problems in Punjab,as I concluded that if situation is bad in Punjab it is worse in west,as per results from social research.

Regarding your concept of 'mysogynistic male control freaks',I would say they are much more common in west as studies show that every 1 in 4 women in west experience domestic violence as consequence high divorce rate and many of these victims opt for LESBIAN orientation.Research has shown that LESBIANISM is mainly a consequence of domestic violence or egotism(extreme feminism),thus, it is not natural but a mental disorder.In general lesbians are not found in Punjab,only exceptional cases may be there.

 

[Archived_member15]

every 1 in 4 women in west experience domestic violence as consequence high divorce rate and many of these victims opt for LESBIAN orientation.Research has shown that LESBIANISM is mainly a consequence of domestic violence or egotism(extreme feminism),thus, it is not natural but a mental disorder.In general lesbians are not found in Punjab,only exceptional cases may be there.

lol

I'm sorry brother, I don't mean to offend, but your words remind me of the President of Iran who said once while visiting the US, "There are no gays in Iran, we don't have this phenomenon" and I couldn't help myself!

I can categorically tell you that lesbianism is not a result of sexual abuse. It is a valid sexual orientation for many women that they are born with, not chosen or conditioned by later experiences.

Lesbianism is not a mental disorder. If you read peer-reviewed studies in sexuality, you will see that it is the way nature makes some women. Homosexuality can also be found in the animal kingdom.

BTW Sikhi is fortunate to be probably the ony religion on earth which doesn't explicitly refer to homosexuality at all in its sacred scriptures, the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, so pray tell me where this prejudice towards homosexuals is coming from? It certainly isn't from Sikhi.

 

[namjiwankaur]

Gyani ji

The saying of Jesus you mentioned came to mind also as I read from this thread.

Randip Ji..OF COURSE IT DOES..Fixation with Food, sugar..meat..milk..kheer..maya..flashy cars..ANYTHING..takes us FURTHER AWAY from Guru Ji... Spot ON.
so she is no different from Many of us...here the Jesus saying applies..Any who has not sinned cast the first stone...

By forgiveness from the Sikh community, it would create Forgiveness from the One. At least, that is how I understand Sikhism. God is Everything. Including Sunny and including the Forgiveness we create by offering it to others.

Religions tend to become more controlling as they get larger. I hope the Sikh community will be able to respond to this challenge in a way that they give this kind of control to the One.

That's my two cents.

peacesignkaur

 

[Harry Haller]

Most pornstars join the pornographic industry because of their avaricious nature or they are addicted to drugs

I have never heard such rubbish, to most it is just a job, a means of earning money. As for drugs, no one wants to see naked women with needle marks all over the place, and at the end of the day, porn is a business, no director is going to risk money over hiring those who are addicts.

Moreover polygamy is common in western countries,sexual morality is irrelevant to these girls

How can you possibly make such definitive statements unless you have been part of the porn industry? You seem to be confusing the characters you may have seen with real life. I guess you probably think Stallone spends all his time hiding out in jungles looking for Vietnam war veterans.

Certainly,their number will increase in future as Sikhs in western countries are abandoning their culture but consider themselves more civilized by adapting western way of life.

All the West does is give people freedom of choice, that is why Sikhs in western countries are abandoning their culture. If people cannot deal with freedom of choice, than it is better that we set up some sort of Taliban Khalistan where people like your goodself can save yourselves, by enforcing what you believe to be Sikhism.

Sometime ago, I went home to visit relations, what I heard and saw shocked me to the core, please do not lecture us about morality, a word which seems to mean 'do anything, but don't get caught' in India

 

[namjiwankaur]

lol

I'm sorry brother, I don't mean to offend, but your words remind me of the President of Iran who said once while visiting the US, "There are no gays in Iran, we don't have this phenomenon" and I couldn't help myself!

I know a lot of us laughed, but there is also something very sad about that comment he made. They kill gays in that country. I've heard they do it in a more horrific manner than they do when horrifically murdering other "criminals".

I can categorically tell you that lesbianism is not a result of sexual abuse. It is a valid sexual orientation for many women that they are born with, not chosen or conditioned by later experiences.

Being lesbian doesn't mean you have a disease. It means you love women. Thanks for speaking up like this, Vouthon ji.

can also be found in the animal kingdom.

Many will respond to that, "So is it ok to act like an animal?" To which I reply,"Sadly humanity's greatest sin and disability is being in denial that we are part of the animal kingdom. We are not little gods. We can learn a lot about good behavior by studying animals. Including how to be a good parent, how to react to an empty nest, how to tread gently on the earth.

BTW Sikhi is fortunate to be probably the ony religion on earth which doesn't explicitly refer to homosexuality at all in its sacred scriptures, the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, so pray tell me where this prejudice towards homosexuals is coming from? It certainly isn't from Sikhi.

So true. <3 ((((Vouthon ji! You are my hero of the day, so boldly standing up for the lesbians of the world.))) <3

I think we are getting off topic now. And I think there are some threads on LGBT elsewhere. But I had to stand up and clap for you.

Sadly, sexuality is often turned taboo by ignorance. I personally believe that we need to reawaken to the fact that sexuality can be a deeply spiritual experience. Even the Bible speaks pretty openly about it and somehow Christianity swiped that message for a puritanical attitude toward sex. When we recognize our bodies as sacred, we realize sex is also sacred.

I am concerned about someone who goes into pornographic work and I know it sometimes (and I mean this with empathy not criticism) some go into pornography after a life filled with much suffering. For those men and women, I hope there will be healing not rewounding in an industry which can be very disrespectful of people and can be re-traumatizing.

:swordfight-kudiyan:

 

[vaulakh]

sorry not meant for you