Leisure Why Did God Give Us Personalities If He Has None Himself?

[Ambarsaria]

gingerteakaurIf God is immanent, then we ARE his personality. Maybe that's the answer? Pretty hard to get your head around that one. Or, he is hard-wired in our brains. Living in there as a higher guidance. Most people know right from wrong. If so, maybe it lets us do what we want, but is "waching" from within, so to speak, and is there for higher guidance. I've struggled with this question for a long time. It's a duality thing. Is it separate or just us? I would like to think it is something higher, hence not listening to that voice within can get you into a lot of trouble.

thinkforyourself ji thanks for your post.

In Sikhism we do not believe in the typical description or characterization of God but more in the viabilty of a single creator and us as and everything around as being creation of such a creator.

Sikhism emphasizes understanding the creation all around as a means to understand in part the creator while it warns against the futility of seeking to know the creator 100% as it postulates that to be not possible given the infiniteness of creation and hence the creator.

So how we go about it. The emphasis is to continue to develop understanding. For example in Sikhism Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, our holy book written in poetic rendition covers many a mis-conceptions and possible wandering assumptions and beliefs and reasons out so one is more capable in developing self understanding.

So the maximum of such in concentration is what is within. Equally important second aspect is what difference does it make to your neighborly members of creation if you know it all. The answer is none to little. So what should one do with the understanding. One should use the understanding, ever enriching, to live in consonance with creation all around.

So two fundamental aspects are continuous unending development of understanding and then living through actions respecting such understanding.

Out of understanding and actions will flow happiness, contentment, and many experiences in life.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Thinkforyourself Ji
If you like questions here is another
Why would a Formless Entity with no form whatsoever create a Cosmos consisting of wholly forms and why then did it also create dieties without form too?

 

[seeker3k]

Seeker3k ji
While it's true that God, when Hirm is perceived by one of us mere mortals while one of us is in the transcendant state, God has no 'form'; and it is also true that, what one DOES perceive, when one looks upon God (with ones "eyes that are not eyes....."), is (and I hate to sound 'cliche') a 'light'; it is also true that, when one is in that state, and 'God looks back at you', God perceives YOU as a 'light', too..
Therefore, the oft stated assumption that "God created us in It's Image", is essentially True - only the original Prophet/Seer/Seeker who made that remark, was talking about how God 'created' the 'light' that is Us (aka: the Clear Light), in the image of the 'light that it is'.
Is that better?
Gotta go - out of time; we'll talk more, later.

It maybe true that God has created us. It could be ameba the single cell creature. It evolved into human. It is hard for some to accept it. But no one knows who and when it started, so why worry about it.

Our personality is made up how our DNA is set up. Some DNA are recessive some predominant. They can change from one to other. It can be by medicine, drugs, medtation. There can be many ways the DNA can be changed. Most of all is the environment and person’s thinking.
Be careful what to think.

JimRinX ji
People talk about transcendent state is a myth. The clever people invented this word to make money. Like Maha Rishi Mahesh he made millions pretending to teach the
Transcendent meditation. All he did was to teach people lucid dream where person can know he is dreaming. Some can control some part of dream with that technique.
When sone is in trance he can not know what is happing to him. How one can see the light with what? In trance there are no eyes. Eyes are for the body not for the soul. If God is like then the lighting we see at the rainy days must be god too.

Nanak said it best. Don’t get into rituals that what Nanak try to get us out of it

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Sinnerji,
what I am saying is that the force that we as sikhs accept as creator, is extremely different to the creator as described in the bible, this is not my opinion brother, this is fact, as written in Gurbani

Veer Ji Water as steam is very different in description from it's liquid form.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Thank you Rajneeshji

let us look at your translation of the first 10 lines,

One Universal Creator God, The Name Is Truth, Creative Being Personified, No Fear, No Hatred, Image Of

The Timeless One, Beyond Birth, Self Existent, By Guru's Grace.

I think this has been taken from sikhiwikki, as it is consistent with the translation there,

Ek Onkar There is only One God
Sat Naam Truth is his name
Karta Purkh He is the creator
Nir Bhau He is without fear
Nir Vair He is without hate
Akaal Moorat He is immortal, without form
Ajooni He is beyond birth and death
Saibhang He is self-illuminated
Gur Parsaad He is realised by the kindness of the true Guru.
This is from another website, see how the translation for kartar purkh is almost contradictory, I have found several more that all differ ever so slightly in translation, thus,
no debate can be had on this unless we all learn Gurbani, and debate in the original texts, anything else is a waste of time, in my view

I must strongly object to this pretty standard translation. In the original, the Supreme is never referred to as HE. In fact, I believe there are no pronouns at all. I find this anthropomorphism to be both sexist and highly misleading. It might be said to be adding a personality of which there is simply no indication in the original writing. I find this translation to be much more satisfactory:


Ek Onkaar One Universal Creator God.
Sat naam The Name Is Truth.
Karta Purakh Creative Being Personified.
Nirbhau No Fear.
Nirvair No Hatred.
Akaal moorat Image Of The Undying,
Ajooni Beyond Birth,
Saibhang Self-Existent.
Gur parsaad By Guru's Grace ~

This is from Sri Granth.

 

[thinkforyourself]

Hmm... Sinner ji, I think a few questions we should ask prior to yours are:
what is a personality?
what is the difference between no personality and all personalities and one personality? (meditate)

Imagine you meet a person who at one time had one personality and at another time had a different personality. Over the course of your lifetime, you see virtually all personality types and traits in this person. Would you say he has a personality? (meditate)

If you say "yes", even having all personalities, you come to say his ONE personality is characteristic of him having all personalities... how strange.

If you say "no", then even having all personalities, you come to say he has NONE... what the? He doesn't have his own personality you might say. You might say he is just random. (isn't that a personality??)

Now imagine you meet a person who just sits in front of you and does nothing, says nothing, neutral facial expression, just listens to you with a blank face. Would you say he has a personality? (meditate)

If you say "yes", then even in having no personality, you come to say their ONE personality is characteristic of them having none. He is very quiet. He holds no grudge with anyone, not angry, not sad, not excited...

If you say "no", then when he does not have a personality, you come to say "he has no personality". Why would you say they have "no personality"? Would the word 'personality' even come to your mind even in your negative description, if they really have no personality? If they truly have no personality and someone were to ask you "what is his personality?" You would give her a strange look as if you had no idea what what she just asked about him.

.

And if at any time, you mistakenly say "He has this one, X, personality". Then realize that any one person is a combination of all personality traits, which appear now and again, in various times and situations. Everyone has all personalities in them.

lol

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People are bones and flesh. An assortment of chemical structures. We can ask:
Does a rock have a personality? Does the sky have a personality? Does a tree have a personality?

If you say "no", An artist is able to see and pull out the personality of these otherwise impersonal things. But does he see in them or give them a personality?

I ask again, what is the difference between no personality and all personalities and one personality?

We are left with very difficult questions. When they manifest simultaneously in my mind, I feel full with energy and enthusiasm. It's the experience of oneness... err...without the oneness, I clearly see the differences, the multiplicity of that moment. It is too vast to explain.


Excerpt from Arti:
ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਨੈਨ ਨਨ ਨੈਨ ਹਹਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਉ ਸਹਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਨਾ ਏਕ ਤਹੀ ॥
सहस तव नैन नन नैन हहि तोहि कउ सहस मूरति नना एक तोही ॥
Sahas ṯav nain nan nain hėh ṯohi ka▫o sahas mūraṯ nanā ek ṯohī.
You have thousands of eyes, and yet You have no eyes. You have thousands of forms, and yet You do not have even one.
ਸਹਸ ਪਦ ਬਿਮਲ ਨਨ ਏਕ ਪਦ ਗੰਧ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਗੰਧ ਇਵ ਚਲਤ ਮੋਹੀ ॥੨॥
सहस पद बिमल नन एक पद गंध बिनु सहस तव गंध इव चलत मोही ॥२॥
Sahas paḏ bimal nan ek paḏ ganḏẖ bin sahas ṯav ganḏẖ iv cẖalaṯ mohī. ||2||
You have thousands of Lotus Feet, and yet You do not have even one foot. You have no nose, but you have thousands of noses. This Play of Yours entrances me. ||2||

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The one who ascribes personalities to things is a person, yes? Only a person can see personalities. Can a rock see personality? I don't think so. Then even to talk of God as having no personality... therein lies His personality.

It seems that as soon as we say "personality"... there appears personality!

As God said "Let there be light" and there was light. gingerteakaur

That was brilliant!

 

[thinkforyourself]

There is no such thing as a "formless" entity. The Cosmos is the entity. It has form. It is itself, and we are parts of it. There are no other dieties. There is only "The One". A formless God without qualities would be nothingness. A dead god.

 

[Ambarsaria]

There is no such thing as a "formless" entity. The Cosmos is the entity. It has form. It is itself, and we are parts of it. There are no other dieties. There is only "The One". A formless God without qualities would be nothingness. A dead god.

thinkforyourself ji there is a basic question that gets posed based on your statement,

The Cosmos is the entity.
Giving name (say Cosmos) does not create attributes and without knowing attributes there is no finite form?

So one gets on a slippery slope of giving names as though a finiteness is associated with such. People call it God, Rama, Krishna, Buddha, etc., as though such are identifiable with the attributes of Cosmos or as dieties or go between to unfold mysteries of such that one may understand.

Sikhism believes in a creator through creation (you call it Cosmos, OK) but at the same time Sikhism says the creation being infinite the creator cannot be defined in fullness. Form and non-form are just one attribute. There are infinite numbers of others hence an undefineable form. I believe it may become semantics to differentiate between undefineable form and formless as within the undefineable form exists the possibility of formless.

May be the above is little convoluted but happy to discuss if needed.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veer Jio's ,Cosmos originates from the Greek term for ornament.You are describing the entities one necklace or perhaps the artificial one, but each necklace itself has no end,My Lord is much more than just matter. He is the maintainer of all matter and all that matters .

 

[Ishna]

The Creative Force will be here long after the cosmos has collapsed in on Itself.

Ambarsaria ji, you said: In Sikhism we do not believe in the typical description or characterization of God but more in the viabilty of a single creator and us as and everything around as being creation of such a creator.

I don't mean to be picky, but reading this gives an impression that the creator is 'there' and we (the creation) are 'here'. Like, the Creator is the potter and we are the clay. But I believe Gurbani says the Creator is the potter AND the clay. I think this is a key concept which differentiates Sikhi from other monotheistic religions which are based on DUALITY which is a poison to the Sikh mind. There is no 'there' and 'here' division between the creator and the creation. I think that's what you were alluding to in the rest of your post but your first paragraph at a cursory read (or by someone whose penny hasn't dropped yet) might throw people off the scent.

Unless you don't believe Creator is the potter AND the clay, in which case we need to talk!

_/\_ Gurfateh

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Isna Ji ,When a great artist makes a masterpeice we say he put himself into it ,it's true he pervades what he makes and it's not a case of after the universe implodes because that force you describe created time and space and so is outside of it aswell.Notwithstanding it can also do anything it wants ,apart from one thing that is.

 

[Harry Haller]

Veer Ji Water as steam is very different in description from it's liquid form.

Sinnerji, I think you have watched too many episodes of family guy, some of your answers bear little relation to the questions, if what you are saying is that the Christian Abrahamic god, is the same as the energy and force that sikhs believe in, I am sorry, but they are not related in any way shape of form, I respect the right of anyone to believe what they want, and if this what you believe, than I respect that too, but when steam cools, it turns back into water, the force and energy I believe in would NEVER behave in the manner of an Abrahamic god, it is more like comparing Pt with NaCl.............

You seemed to have reached a conclusion that all paths lead to the same point. I am not sure on what basis you have concluded this, we have no sin, no heaven, no hell, christians exist to please god, we exist to excel in life as per the guidelines of the SGGS to our best ability, we are free, we embrace with science the beginning of the world, I think such a path will only confuse you brother, you are using Honda car parts in a Range Rover on the basis that all the parts make a car, so it does not matter which part you use, drive a Honda? use Honda Parts, or else you risk running a car made out of all manner of parts, and when it all goes wrong, who do you go to for repairs?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veer Ji ,I don't watch family guy, if we all say the same thing it is not a discourse,I respect your view and acknowledge you maybe right.I hope udasi musketeer Bhagat Singh can help us to come to the truth of the matter.

 

[Harry Haller]

All we know is our own truth, I also respect your view, I am afraid of you being rudderless, that is the only reason I make this point, but at the end of the day, we all have to walk our own path, I hope that whatever you learn you share with us, and I am sure some knowledge will be obtained, good luck brother

 

[rajneesh madhok]

Thank you Rajneeshji

let us look at your translation of the first 10 lines,

One Universal Creator God, The Name Is Truth, Creative Being Personified, No Fear, No Hatred, Image Of

The Timeless One, Beyond Birth, Self Existent, By Guru's Grace.

I think this has been taken from sikhiwikki, as it is consistent with the translation there,

Ek Onkar There is only One God
Sat Naam Truth is his name
Karta Purkh He is the creator
Nir Bhau He is without fear
Nir Vair He is without hate
Akaal Moorat He is immortal, without form
Ajooni He is beyond birth and death
Saibhang He is self-illuminated
Gur Parsaad He is realised by the kindness of the true Guru.
This is from another website, see how the translation for kartar purkh is almost contradictory, I have found several more that all differ ever so slightly in translation, thus,
no debate can be had on this unless we all learn Gurbani, and debate in the original texts, anything else is a waste of time, in my view

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Sikhism
Dear Harry haller ji,
The contents have not been taken from Sikkhiwikki but from the Wikipedia of Sikhism.
The theory of Ek Onkar that there is only One God and His name is Truth. He is without fear, without hate and is immortal.
Regards,
Rajneesh

 

[thinkforyourself]

thinkforyourself ji there is a basic question that gets posed based on your statement,



Sat Sri Akal.

From what I am reading in here, I guess I am on the wrong website. I can only believe in what I see. I think that is all that matters in life, as long as you are a decent person. Our five senses are the only logical thing we have to go by. Although I do believe in a 6th sense, intuition. I just do not see God, or whatever you want to call it, in a personal way. Things are what they are. I guess I am more of an Epicurean then, or have a better understanding of Buddhism, and am just a materialist at heart. Life seems to me like a giant jigsaw puzzle. Everyone has a bit of the truth, but there are missing pieces. I don't believe these pieces will ever be found. We are limited as human beings and can never know everything.
Thanking you all for your opinions though.

 

[Harry Haller]

From what I am reading in here, I guess I am on the wrong website. I can only believe in what I see. I think that is all that matters in life, as long as you are a decent person. Our five senses are the only logical thing we have to go by. Although I do believe in a 6th sense, intuition. I just do not see God, or whatever you want to call it, in a personal way. Things are what they are. I guess I am more of an Epicurean then, or have a better understanding of Buddhism, and am just a materialist at heart. Life seems to me like a giant jigsaw puzzle. Everyone has a bit of the truth, but there are missing pieces. I don't believe these pieces will ever be found. We are limited as human beings and can never know everything.
Thanking you all for your opinions though.

Brother,
I also do not see god or whatever you want to call it in a personal way, things are exactly what they are, I am also a materialist in some ways, the secret is not to be attached, but never never stop looking for the missing pieces, I have found out where these pieces are (for me, SGGS), but there is still some searching before I can put them together, every day I get a bit closer though, and every day, that 6th sense, intuition, perception, the third eye, gets better, no, we can never know everything, but that makes us 1 step ahead those that know nothing, or worse, those that think they know everything

 

[thinkforyourself]

Brother,
I also do not see god or whatever you want to call it in a personal way, things are exactly what they are, I am also a materialist in some ways, the secret is not to be attached, but never never stop looking for the missing pieces, I have found out where these pieces are (for me, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji), but there is still some searching before I can put them together, every day I get a bit closer though, and every day, that 6th sense, intuition, perception, the third eye, gets better, no, we can never know everything, but that makes us 1 step ahead those that know nothing, or worse, those that think they know everything

Harry Haller,
Hello Harry,
I am not a brother, but I guess a sister? I don't know what you would call the female. Anyway, I have totally given up looking for anything. I came on here looking for I don't know what, and then it always comes back to me that there is nothing to look for. It's just all here, all now. I truly believe I'm at the wrong website. Yes, there is nothing worse than thinking one knows everything. You are right. I truly do not fit in anywhere with my thoughts, and believe I should resign my membership. There seem to be a lot of nice people on here.
Regards

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Harry Haller,
Hello Harry,
I am not a brother, but I guess a sister? I don't know what you would call the female. Anyway, I have totally given up looking for anything. I came on here looking for I don't know what, and then it always comes back to me that there is nothing to look for. It's just all here, all now. I truly believe I'm at the wrong website. Yes, there is nothing worse than thinking one knows everything. You are right. I truly do not fit in anywhere with my thoughts, and believe I should resign my membership. There seem to be a lot of nice people on here.
Regards

Yes, definitely a sister. I think Harry needs new glasses.

May I suggest you think about my signature:

WHY TRY TO FIT IN? YOU WERE BORN TO STAND OUT!

So please stick around and stand out.

japposatnamwaheguru: japposatnamwaheguru: japposatnamwaheguru:

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Thinkforyourself Ji We have to realise more than look ,I also hardly fit in madam so you are not alone, the future content is ours to shape, admin allowing,so lets to take over SPN one post at a time together and make it whatever you want it to be.